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Bullzeye

The Attitude of Modding

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Hey guys,

(This is just a thought piece and not meant to start flames or etc. So I encourage opinions and responses, but dont respond just to flame wars.)

Some of you guys know how old I am and how long Ive been around the GTA modeling/modding scene (since 2007-2008ish). I guess in a way I wanted to take a few minutes here to bring up some points. Alot has changed since the old modding days and I wanted to discuss some of the changes.

Modding use to be a culture... it used to be people looking to expand the value and gameplay of a game for as long as they could. With modding there came communities of modders. These modders worked together, shared knowledge, helped each other out, taught each other different things, discussed different techniques or ways of doing things or getting stuff done, shared resources/textures/models/assets/etc. You would spend hours upon hours in voice chats enjoying playing the game, using your creativity to think of mods to make, make the mods, test the mods, discuss with other modders about your mod, etc. Youd laugh, share some methods and things, talk about home stuff, etc. You knew each other as if it was a group of people that would meet up in the "ol' garage workshop", crack open a beer, and work on making their model kits together or working on "fixing the car together", etc. Youd make friendships that lasted lifetimes with each other... Hell Ive even become roommates with someone in my younger years I met through modding GTA because I was homeless when I came home from the service... and him and I still talk to this day (every day). These were friends that I could "log on" and talk to on good days and bad... talk to about stuff I didnt even really want to talk to real life people about.... all while "modding" a game and just "having a chat with the boys". These were the friendships and good times "iTs JuSt MoDdInG BrUh" brought us in those days. It was a legit "community" of people that helped each other AND watched out for each other. I can go on and on and on... but I know itll all just sound the same after a while.

Now-a-days why does it seem so different? Why does it have to be different? Why is it "its about me and nobody else"? Why is it "fuck them"? Why is there a lack of respect between modders? Why is there a seemingly "need" by some to even purposely derail or fuck over others? Why is it so rare to find someone sharing knowledge or information even?

Of course some will just say: "Well its just toxic and it always will be". Of course it will, unless we decide to change that as a community. As a community of MODELERS AND MODDERS. Forget the titles of GPM, FR, MU, etc... Im talking grand scale of GTA modding period. Why CANT we be more considerate of each other? Why CANT we be more assisting and helpful of each other? Why CANT we learn and build together? Why does this seem like such a hard or impossible thing to achieve? Why IS it impossible to achieve?

Weve been through alot as a modding community all-together... from threats of lawsuits against modders and communities... to all out wars on websites between groups of people... weve been through it all already... so why cant we all just band together as modders at least? Why fight each other amongst the inside as well?

Think about how, not only great for eveyone, but how strong as a modding community we'd be if we just ALL worked together and REALLY blew up modding games because we were all working together. The strides in modding would be IMMENSE. Content, assets, etc would be abundant and enormous. But everytime we fuck each other over, chase away someone trying out of the community, rip or leak someones hard work, etc... we prevent that from happening. We are stopping OURSELVES from growing as a community. Nobody else is.

In closing I guess Id just like to see the old way of going about things. To enjoy a hobby with a group of people that enjoy it in the same way, sit back, and crack some jokes with the community of people in the "ol' garage" while we fix some cars....

Remember opinions and additions are welcome, but keep it constructive and clean.

Regards,
Bullzeye

#BringItBack

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In my opinion its all about money now, no one wants to share anything that could set their "competition" apart from themselves. Its all about who has the best models or the most interesting vehicles from everyone else just for the lone reason of wanting to make money. 

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2 hours ago, Bullzeye said:

 These were friends that I could "log on" and talk to on good days and bad... talk to about stuff I didnt even really want to talk to real life people about.... all while "modding" a game and just "having a chat with the boys".

I can definitely relate to that a lot, Definitely the high point of modding in GTA 5 for me.

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WARNING: Wall-o-text inbound

 

While I haven't done any form of mod creation for GTA myself, I've helped folks in the past when it came to mod testing, fixing scripting headaches, etc. for other games. I feel that Bullzeye's complaints are well warranted... I've never seen this rabid form of commercialization of mods or nasty attitudes in other modding scenes... And I've had my fair share of helping out for games like ATS/ETS, Farming Sim 17/19 amongst some other forgotten titles (and there are paid mods for these games too). For Pete's sake, it's a hobby and a form of creative expression, not a fucking multi-million dollar industry.

 

And yes, one of the biggest forms of nastiness I see is folks taking a dump all over newcomers (and vets) to the craft. So what if they've made an odd selection of parts for their vehicle, IT'S A FREAKING VIDEO GAME, an outlet for creative expression (be it good or bad)... It's one thing to offer some advice or constructive criticism, it's another to completely tear apart someone's work and start insulting them or treating them nastily. Remember, we were all newbies at one point in our careers and needed advice and/or someone to point things out (in a positive manner). Also, people are allowed to take creative license when it comes to things, 'Hyper-realism/100% to scale' isn't the main goal for most folks, so what if their light-bar sits 6 inches too far to the rear? If they like it like that, let 'em leave it like that. If you don't like it, and have the proper skills, why not make your car instead of shitting on the new guy who's happy to share his stuff with the world?

 

Furthermore, if you're not afraid to critique other peoples' work, be prepared to receive it yourself. Don't start getting pissy when someone starts tearing your stuff apart. If you can't handle it, then don't do the same to other folks. This is how we drive decent people away from the community, attract the vultures as well as the all the nasty that comes with them (demanding users, trolls, etc.).

 

Lastly, I'd like to point out that modding sits in a legal grey zone... we're reproducing things from patented/copyrighted/trademarked designs/objects, and without authorization 99% of the time (and I'm not gonna debate the finer legal points, this is just a broad statement). Don't be the dick that starts legal shit (like sending false DMCAs, C&Ds, etc.) because they're salty about something. That's the quickest way to start attracting the attention of the rights holders and have them start cracking down on the unauthorized use of their stuff. Not to mention, it's the quickest way to have your butt sent to prison for false representation.

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mike_art03a

GTA Police Mods

System Operations Director | GPM Management Team | Professional Lurker

I may not be the most active person on the forums, but I'm still around keeping an eye on things.

If you have any support requests, comments, etc. Feel free to message me here or on Discord. If your request is more urgent or of a different nature (ex. site affiliate), please open a support ticket and it'll be looked into ASAP.

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Good gaming communities died when people stopped playing for fun.

 

Now everyone either wants to be "famous" or wants a fake virtual role or "power" more than they want to have fun. The fact that a lot of people are capitalising on modding in every area they can doesnt help either and forces other people to do the same. So yeah nowdays its just people who sh*t stare to get the spotlight on them or trying to make money any way possible even if that means selling ripped mods or models (either from other games,communities or from other modders). Both are bad and pathetic tbh and part of it is even illegal. 

 

Unfortunally people wanting more and more power and/or money is human nature and the same applies in gaming (or modding).

 

I think we shall all try to have fun playing this game and making mods for it and be gratefull that we have so many ways to customize it instead of being greedy and trying to prove that we are "someone" to each other. Great ideas and outcomes arent made by one person they are made by a lot of people thinking and working together to get things done.

 

i just deleted about 5 paragraphs analyzing the whole issue within the gta modding community but no one will read it or care enough anyway.

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This dividing I would call it has shown its face in more recent years then it has back in SAMP and IV. Sadly I don't think it will ever be the same @Bullzeye


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You know, I've recently only getting into the "developing" side of things, but it's amazing how many people, have something to say about what I've done, but yet, wont help when asked. Theres clear divides in the community, you're either with "them" or you're with "them". Its sad honestly. Theres a lot of selfishness and like you said, all about me. When I make something, I dont go after accuracy, I never have, I never will, and that's hard for some people to grasp, therefore, I dont fit the mold. People use these things as a mental escape or to use they're creativity to create something. And dont get me wrong, a lot of it comes down to the consumer, bashing peoples work because it's not how they would've done it, or this detail is 5mm off. It can be very discouraging. I personally feel that a lot of these issues stemming is because of the way that us, as a society is actng, and the direction were taking things. And like @Horseman said, it is definitely being driven by money. It's honestly disgraceful. 

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